I have to say I agree that the AI is very raceable and has pretty good awareness. There is only one situation where I would like to see an improvement and that is when more then two cars are involved. Let's say you alter your line or brake point because you are fighting with a car that is in front of you, there is usually a problem with following traffic. If you brake early or alter your line because there is a car in front of you usually get blastered by the car behind. The only way I have found to deal with it is stay where you are if there is a car behind you and wait until you have some room to manouvre.
I don't know if the problem is already known, but in preparation for a league race I did some 60 min races on the Nordschleife with a 110 % AI. At the beginning I am 2-3 sec faster than the AI, but with decreasing grip I slow down 3 -6 sec per lap, but the AI drives the same lap times as with new tires, although the tires of the AI partly already blink orange.
Well then, allow me to respond in kind: Now tell me again that the AI can't be raced. Please... Is the AI perfect? No, of course it isn't. It's an AI, thus it has a limited number of parameters to choose from in any given race. But nor is it unraceable or homicidal. There will be the odd incident (just like in MP racing), but usually when I check the replay the incident is due to me being overly optimistic and/or just plain boneheaded stupidity. So here's what I'd suggest. Instead of jumping into GT1s, try the FRJ or BMW235i. While not as fast or arguably as 'sexy' as some of the other classes, they're very good at teaching you how to run in a crowd, and it'll develop some basic race-craft skills. I mean, I've been at this a while, and I usually don't run something like P1s or FRXs. Not because I can't drive them, but simply because everything happens much too fast for me in a crowd. As it turns out, faster cars are harder to race..... Who knew?
Big fan of racing the frj cars against the ai. 100% concur, some tracks are all about racing high performance smaller cars with lower hp. Wish there were more races online for the frj cars
Why do you get so defensive if people give suggestions to improve the AI ? I payed for the content , can i give my opinion or what ? I played different racing games and Project Cars 2 seems to have the best AI out there now after they patched it . RR has good AI but it's too aggressive sometimes . I think that there should be an option to set how you want it as i said before .
I would in fact be interested how the PC2 AI is working now as it was one of the major reasons for me to switch to RR. A few month ago PC2 AI was ridiculous. No consistency from one track to the next, no awareness and all cars were driving one after another like a bead of pearls. I would actually be very surprised if it is better now but will definitely check.
It's pretty much the same. Awareness has improved, but you still have the problem of the AI levels jumping up and down from combo to combo. Can't speak for anyone else, but for me adding an aggression slider would a ) use a lot of programming hours that could (imo) be better spend on adding/improving more needed features. b ) add yet another variable that the adaptive AI system would have to take into account. All to fix a problem that isn't there in the first place.
The game is very expensive and must have the possibility of setting "AI aggression". Like AC, RFactor, GTR, Automobilista etc etc etc.
PC2 has on the track perhaps the best KI but has still it's issues. I see they do not change their line when the surface is wet to avoid aquaplaning (it still not has in fact - but should has - the physic is not adapted to the KI). The logic when it comes to pit stopes is still curious. Sometimes they drive in a lot of times with no reason traced to the weather e.g. Makes no sense. and so on....(consistency, Pace of KI wet/dry...). But I don't see a sim with better KIs.
I have found this too, however, to be fair, the player's level jumps up and down from combo to combo too (at least mine does! ) so it can be quite a slippery eel to catch. I think this is where, in theory at least, the adaptive AI is a noble attempt at trying to match the player's performance with so many different combos. It still needs data to go on though, hence a reasonable history of practicing, qualifying and racing are necessary.
I agree 100%. It is easy to naively underestimate what it means to add such a variable which probably does not have a clear counterpart in the algorithm. And PC2 is a perfect example what happens if you bite off more than you can chew, having more bugs than a neon lite at night in the Mediterranean. Most of us do not understand the complexity of software. I absolutely love the maturity of RR and therefore can do with some features missing. I hope they keep it that way.
Nobledms said: "Project Cars 2 has an aggresion meter for AI from 0 to 100. It works perfectly , i think that it should be the way to go in order to improve the AI behaviour in RR ." Exactly. The game needs: 1) AI strengh 2) AI aggression Why not? Simbin/Sector 3 in GTR2 has "AI aggression" (year 2005) Simbin/Sector 3 in Race Room does not have "AI aggression" (year 2018, incredible) More aggressive behavior
I don't know why, but I think, AI is too agressive, too. Started 2015 and was very happy with the AI there. Then it got patched some times and got worse (for me)
So those three latest examples look like FRX at Portimao and Mid-Ohio, plus P1s at Imola, correct? First, as mentioned earlier, both the FRX and the P1 are pretty hard to drive on their own. Put them in a crowd, and it gets harder still. The speeds these things go at means that the slightest lapse in focus will probably mean an incident/off-track. Second, when it comes to the AI I agree that Portimao is probably the worst of the lot. The AI uses some distinctly odd lines at times, and the whole thing is just less intuitive than at other tracks. So you have to be far more observant of the AI than with other combos. Note that this just makes it harder, but it certainly doesn't make it impossible. Finally, I can't drive the FRX for sh*t. It's just too much of a car for me to handle comfortably. Half the time I'm driving the car, the other half I'm just hanging on for dear life, screaming like a little girl. The only good thing about driving the FRX is that afterwards it makes the P1 look positively docile. But interestingly enough, even with all the above, I had no trouble getting good racing against the AI. There's a few things you can do to improve the racing, both against AI and in MP. (And my apologies in advance if I'm simply stating the obvious here) 1. Pulling in front of another car just before a braking-zone and then stomping on the brakes is just plain stupid. Not only are you taking away your opponents ability to react, you're also placing a honking great car right in front of him, meaning his braking zone just got 4-5 meters shorter. So of course you'll get rammed. That doesn't mean it's his fault though. Pull something like that at a Racedepartment MP race, and I'll guarantee you you'll get insta-banned. 2. A little patience goes a long way. Not every corner is an over-taking opportunity. Most tracks only have 2-3 places where you're actually have a decent chance to make a pass and make it stick. And if you're not able to make the pass stick, all you've accomplished is putting two cars in close proximity with nothing to show for it. Again, kinda stupid. It's far better to stay behind your opponent and put pressure on him. Either he'll make a mistake, or you'll get to a corner where overtaking is actually possible. 3. Out-braking isn't the only weapon in your arsenal. In fact, it's not even the best weapon. Granted, out-braking your opponent is a valid tactic, and at times it's the only one available. But it's also high-risk, meaning it should be reserved for when all other options have been exhausted. The smarter way to go about it, is to drop back a car-length or so, and focus on getting a better exit from the corner than your opponent. Higher exit-speed means you can comfortably get alongside him on the straight with little risk. Doesn't even have to be a complete pass, all you have to do is get yourself on the inside for the next corner and you're pretty much golden. Again, patience. 4. Lap 1 is NOT the time to be hyper-aggressive. I know, you'll never be as close to so many opponents at once as you are on the start-line. But this also means you'll have to be aware of opponents in every direction. As will your opponents. So the chances of an incident skyrockets. In sim-racing and in real-life, Turn 1 Lap 1 is guaranteed to have the highest chance of a crash. So keep it as safe as possible. Defend your position if feasible, but don't worry if you lose a few positions. Nobody ever won the race on Lap 1. 5. Everybody starts somewhere. In real-life you don't see people getting plucked off the streets, and shoved into a P1. Why? Because a P1 is kinda hard to drive. So just like real-life, start with some of the slower classes, and get your basic race-craft sorted before jumping into one of the 500+bhp monsters. Personally, I prefer the FRJ, but that's just me. The 235i, F4s, Audi TTs, Aquilas, all are perfectly valid options for learning the do's and don'ts of any given track. And since slower cars gets you closer racing, I'll even guarantee you you'll have fun. But if you think you can simply jump into a FRX and get close racing without some serious amount of practice, you're simply setting yourself up to fail. Having said all that, let's have a look at that AI..... And just for the record, I'm not changing my driving to adapt to racing the AI. If anything, I'm far more aggressive against the AI than I would be in a MP race. If for no other reason than I don't have to apologize to the AI after punting it. @Christian Göpfert A few AI observations for your bug-list. Imola. The AI is coming in much too hot into the T2/3 chicane. This is a general thing for all the classes I've tried. Even if it manages to hold onto it (which isn't guaranteed) their exit-speed from T3 gets severely compromised. And T2 on Lap 1 at Imola is just plain scary. Mid-Ohio. Reverse is true here, the AI is weirdly slow in T1. It's okay(ish) for the slower classes, but for the high-downforce stuff it just gets silly. In the FR US (which is easily capable of taking that turn flat-out) the AI will not only lift, but also occasionally brake in that turn. Also, there's something weird going on at the pit-exit. Only noticed it now, so it might just be with the FRX, but when exiting the pit, even if the track is clear the AI will at times just stop for a second before pulling onto the track itself. Doesn't affect the racing as such, but it looks kinda silly. Plus, I have rammed the AI more than once because of that. Portimao. This track AI really needs some TLC. Especially since it's one of the free tracks, so it'll be one of the first new users gets to race. The AI just doesn't seem to have any flow around here, it's a lot of stop'n'go. Vague, I know, and it's just a gut-feeling. But specifically the AI again comes in far too hot into T1. Either it'll careen off the track-limits on exit, or it'll hit the inside sausage-curb with predictable results. T1 Lap 1 is even scarier than Imola. Furthermore, in the second hairpin (the left-hander) the AI seems to have two lines to choose from. And if it moves to the far outside line, it'll almost come to a complete stand-still before turning in. Easy to exploit if you know it's coming, but if you don't and try to follow it, you're almost guaranteed to ram it. EDIT: And re. the adaptive AI... Can we please have it ignore the slowest lap in the database? The P1@Imola race where I spun it on the penultimate lap for example, means that unless I manually delete the entry, I now have 14 extra seconds added to my average, so the next time I run that combo it'll be molasses-slow. It's....kinda annoying.
I agree that it's a slippery one to catch, which is why I'm a little puzzled as to why more sims don't incorporate an adaptive AI. R3E has it, and NASCAR Heat has something similar with their Speed Rating, but that aside I can't think of any. The problem with having multiple levels for different combos is that it makes championships pretty much moot. Even if you set the AI to a mid-point of the combo-levels, you'll still end up with a lot of races where you're just grinding. Either because the AI can't catch you, or vice-versa. And if a championship doesn't work, then a career-mode where you have to actually win to advance becomes even more pointless.
Yeah. Running Championships on adaptive AI seems to be the way to go. Accuracy will depend on how much data the AI has going into the Championship for those particular combinations of course, but you can either run those particular track/car combinations a few times before the Championship or just run the Championship once through as a dry run to educate the AI. BTW, this is where it would be handy to be able to save a Championship structure so as not to have to creat it anew each time.
CheerfullyInsane i really appreciate your explanations about the AI. Maybe one of the problems is the braking points, what is your brake setting ? (sensibility, saturation, deadzone etc).